GT380 Timimg....

Post your problems / information on the smaller GT Models here
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Alan H
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Alan H »

Dbailey wrote:So plugs out and 6th gear then rotate the rear wheel in the direction of forward travel is not ok?

Also any thoughts on the cam position picture?

Thanks
Dave Bailey
Well, the top points should be fully open, so you can set the gap anyway. That's all you do when the points are fully open.
THEN the actual opening time is when the lines line up - turning the engine in the normal rotation direction of course NOT backwards as we mentioned earlier.
If they don't line up, it's quite possible you have the wrong points - or backplate.
There are two sorts - Kokusan and Denso. Different altogether.
They also have different cams - which affects the points dwell - to allow the different capacitors to charge slightly differently.
Nothing simple is there?
If you fit the wrong points, the timing slots won't allow the points to time correctly.
Soooo, either get the correct ones, or elongate the slots so they timing can actually be times, so to speak.
Fortunately, the different capacitance levels of the different points/cam options doesn't matter toooo much. :roll:
Spot the differences.
Denso points.jpg
Kokusan points.jpg
What does 'dwell' mean?
Well it's the time that the points are open, and that's when the capacitors can charge up, starting when the points open - this takes the spark away from the points and stops the points from getting worn, either by getting a 'tit' on one face, and a cavity on t'other and this causes the timing to usually retard, I believe, and also the coils don't get the extra power from the fully charged capacitor and then the HT voltage at the plugs is less, so there's a weaker spark.
If the wrong capacitor is fitted, or the one there is on it's way out, there will be a spark a the points and this gives the tit/cavity situation as described above.
Oh and dwell can be affected by the points gap too, as a smaller gap will give less dwell - which gives less time for the spark to be extinguished - and a larger gap will give a greater one - which allows a greater time and doesn't matter as much as the spark has gone.
A DC circuit needs better arc suppression than an AC circuit due to the way that an arc is started and the time it's there, otherwise the contact faces erode quickly, even more so than an AC circuit.
However, any electrical switch that opens has a spark across the contacts which can be controlled in different ways, as the actual contact face is very important and needs to be the best as regards resistance. In the case of points, it's by a capacitor - other ways might be blowout coils, magnetic arc expansion, vacuum, extended contact tips - all used in higher current circuit contactors.

Did I mention that I did all this sort of stuff for a loooong time when I actually had a job? :lol:

Good innit?!
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
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Alan H
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Alan H »

Just use the marks on the 'propeller' under the points when they line up.
I've done my 550 that way and can start it (using the kickstart), by hand.
Set the points gaps correctly, then left first on the 550, can't remember on the hippo, connect a multimeter across the points (ignition off), and when the reading goes high, the marks should be in line. If not adjust the back plate until they are.
Don't turn the engine backwards, go right round to recheck. Then the next one etc.
You have to remember that these engines don't rev like modern 4 strokes and are much more tolerant if the timing is a degree or so out.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
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PaulD738
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by PaulD738 »

I can’t see owt wrong wi a “tit on the face” depending which tit it is of course :tw
I know coat, door :roll:
They're rubbish them Jap bikes lad they won't last five minutes! you want to get yourself a nice Royal Enfield!
A quote from my old dad 8-)

I started out with nothing and I’ve got most of it left!
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Alan H
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Alan H »

PaulD738 wrote:I can’t see owt wrong wi a “tit on the face” depending which tit it is of course :tw
I know coat, door :roll:
Or the face of the tit, like yours yer plum! :lol:
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
Dbailey
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Dbailey »

Cheers Alan... I’ll print that lot and work through it....

Thanks
Dave Bailey
Dbailey
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Dbailey »

OK guys an update.... bear with me I'm trying to learn as much as I can by hopefully looking at things in a logical way...

Not yet got my head around the timing mark propeller yet despite Alan's detailed explanation (thanks again) but I will get there..Before I changed anything i wanted to be sure I understood where the setup is at the moment...

So the Haynes manual which I'm sure is probably wrong tells me the ignition timing points opening is at 3mm BTDC so I made myself a DTI so that I can measure what I currently have... Basically the points opening for the left cylinder is currently at 0.85 mm BTDC so not as advance as it should be. The thing is the points at this point are not fully open. If I move the piston to TDC and set the gap @ 0.014 inches the opening point is then @ 3mm BTDC but if I rotate the motor the max points opening measures 0.16 which is still in spec I think.. I'm going to set the other two sets in the same way and see how it runs...

Image
Dbailey
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Dbailey »

Ok so finished tweaking the points and timing and it started at least... I’ll give it a ride tomorrow then check the cylinder temperatures.Timing is set as close to 3mm BTDC as in can get with a points gap of 0.014” @ TDC although the final opening gap is actually 0.016”

Dave Bailey....
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Alan H
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Alan H »

That's near enough.
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willowden
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by willowden »

I have always been under the impression you should never turn the engine by using the nut on the end of the points cam . You will strip the nylon cog behind it .
Wasn’t there a Suzuki service bulletin confirming this ?
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Alan H
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Re: GT380 Timimg....

Post by Alan H »

Yes. I'd forgotten that as I'm used to the 550.
Should be ok with plugs out though.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
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