Project X

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madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Having just finished my first Kettle restoration, I became more and more intrigued by the motor and how tune-able it potentially was.


So here is the cunning plan!

1. Tune a kettle to a high street/track level of tune so it is still be rideable to the pub (just).
2. Add a few sexy engine bits like a dry clutch and 6 speed.

3. Make it stop and handle.

Pretty simple goal over a pint?

So I acquired barrels, a head and a set of trashed (sacrificial) casings (I knew this might be a grinder-fest!).

This post will start with the chassis development thus far and then move into the motor and cosmetics as it progresses.

I can't promise how long this will take, but I would like to not be retired when it is complete!

So which basic chassis and look?

I have always liked 'suspended engines' like the Honda VFR800 and want a single sided swinging arm look, but this is a quantum shift in Kettle mounting! Sounds like a challenge, so as someone wise once said on this forum, "why? because I can!"


Having bought some VFR casings, arm and main frame, the fun began.


The VFR has three engine mounts and the swinging arm is through the rear of the engine.

IMG_1181.JPG
IMG_1182.JPG
I started with the arm as this was the real unknown.

First I took all the vital statistics to make sure I could get close to them when I finished the 'Frankenbike'.
IMG_1207.JPG
IMG_1208.JPG
Suspension angle, arm angle, rake angle etc. All recorded.

The VFR also uses a fancy lower suspension mount casting so the whole thing had to be assembled and dimension taken down.
IMG_1303.JPG
Plan A was to try to get the swinging arm mount inside the engine casings like the VFR. Out with the grinder!
IMG_1217.JPG
IMG_1224.JPG
IMG_1229.JPG

By removing the kick start assembly, I had a nice location for an arm axle shaft. This was duly machined and fitted (more about how I was going to start it later).

Well it kinda worked and made a lovely short wheel base but the more I got the position close to having the primary and rear drives line up the more the centre of the line bike went west and the more grinding I did, which just meant more welding later to create a sump again!
IMG_1236.JPG
Plan B

Forget mounting the arm axle inside the motor.

I decided to use the upper and lower rear engine mounts and make a combined suspension lower mount and rear engine mount. Hopefully the two mounts with a third on the rear of the barrels should be enough support (more of the rest of the mountings later).


The pic is still a prototype but I made two 'boomerang' mounts bolted through the Kettle engine mounts (now solidly bushed). The lower of the two also locates the lower suspension mount (still a proto - metal to be removed yet for weight reduction) block.
IMG_1268.JPG

Big plus with this is I dont have to hack the cases nearly as much!
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

So with the suspension mount installed, I moved to the barrel mounts. The VFR had 2 but I plan to remove one from the frame to make room for larger carbs. So the one (pair) remaining had to be pretty robust.

I designed 2 blocks that fit into the fins of the barrel and can be easily welded in place.For now I am tacking them on in case the carbs become a challenge and if I decide to add reed valves (which I would weld the housings in for first).
IMG_1298.JPG
The rear top mounts (the 4th pair now) are already on the VFR frame and line up fairly well with my boomerang mounts so in the final design I will add some meat and threads in there to take those.
IMG_1300.JPG

So I think as a start it looks pretty slick! And the primary and rear drive are only 5mm out of line! Easy to fix.
IMG_1284.JPG
IMG_1302.JPG
I kinda like the flip -top design. Should make servicing easier!

I have chosen my wheels (CBR1000R) although for my retro-ish look I want, I might chrome them.

Front end is a nice GSXR750 inverted Showa pair with lots of room to play with settings.

So welders tomorrow.
Attachments
IMG_1286.JPG
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
Posts: 12104
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

Certaiinly different. I like different.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
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PaulD738
Posts: 3962
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:57 pm
Location: Warrington Cheshire

Re: Project X

Post by PaulD738 »

Alan H wrote: I like different.
Now why doesn't that surprise me? :lol:
They're rubbish them Jap bikes lad they won't last five minutes! you want to get yourself a nice Royal Enfield!
A quote from my old dad 8-)

I started out with nothing and I’ve got most of it left!
teazer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Project X

Post by teazer »

That is a seriously mad project. I like that. Q: how is wheel alignment? The reason I ask is that a GT motor isn't exactly symmetrical and I suspect that if the sprocket is almost in line with the rear, the motor or wheel may be offset relative to the chassis centerline.

Or maybe you got lucky. :)
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Teazer

ON the VFR the rear shock and rear wheel centre are slightly offset which initially confused me until I finished all the measuring. In the end the engine is only about 20mm of centre line. Not too shabby!

Once the head is welded I will get into porting properly which will drive the exhaust design. I am trying to get all three to come out under the seat.

Did you recover from the garage flood?

More later
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Got the barrel engine mounts back from the welders. Just tacked on for now....
IMG_1309.JPG
The other two mounts at the rear of the barrel mounts can be cut off now (grinder fun!)
IMG_1307.JPG
Final line up check. All square and engine centre line is about 3 mm off as far as I can see. Shock looks weird because it is offset anyway.

Now I need to get into porting to sort the exhausts.

I am a complete porting novice so I have started boneing up. Some of the forum guys have been really helpful (thanks Teazer) so I feel I can make a start.

As a test I am going to map what I have. Run it through a simulation to test the simulation, then go from there.

So a couple of goes at a porting map......
IMG_1311.JPG
IMG_1312.JPG
Will let you know how I get on :lol:
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Having tried to measure the two tracings and comparing to actual measurements where I can I have come up with the following map.
ports std.jpg
The black horizontal lines are me working out the blow down timing/area (time to transfers opening from exhaust opening).

Hopefully it is fairly accurate although I noted that while I show similar parts and the same height there is a bit of difference there. Port widths also seem to vary a bit but that could be a tracing/circumference issue?

Does anyone have a port tracing for an A for comparison?
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
mutisnuts74
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:14 pm

Re: Project X

Post by mutisnuts74 »

Hi, I may be wrong here due to camera angle but studying your photo with the string line it does look a little to the left please check your measurements again if so and I did my special the same way although not ant where near your ambitious and fantastic looking example

Steve
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garry55
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:49 pm
Location: White Rose County

Re: Project X

Post by garry55 »

I was thinking it actually needed to go more to the left - the string line runs through the centre of the middle inlet port, which isn't the centre of the engine?
Garry.

Inside every standard Kettle is a bloody good engine crying for help............... :D
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