Project X

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madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Been a bit quiet for a while while I wait for another dyno run which is now in 2 weeks. :D

In the interim I have started the main electrics build.

The ECU and main computer are all done and just needs housing.

I also needed a fuse and power relay box. Each fuse has a LED that lights if it fails.
Batbox2.jpg
Batbox1.jpg
The box sits up in the tail section and replaces some of the temporary wiring and removes the need for the external water pump and fan controller which is now managed between this box and the ECU which sits up under the tank.

I designed the box then printed it. The stainless top plate is lazer cut.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
Posts: 12117
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

One thing I'm certain of, my current 550 build won't be as complicated as yours mate!!! :)
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Al, I just can't stop digging holes for myself...... :D

Anyone would think I was a bored, near retirement engineer.......
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
Posts: 12117
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

I have of course realised that we don't get smarter as we age.
I'm currently on with redoing a wildlife pond at the bottom of the garden so the Palmate newts (Lissotriton helveticus) will be happy there. That's after building and restoring another greenhouse and benches, setting the caravan up for this season, getting 600odd miles on the Guzzi, done the starter clutch and other stuff on Earwig, stripped Emma & a cartload of parts ready for the powdercoaters and a 'couple' of other projects ongoing.....I'm knackered!
Anyone would think I'm a retired Engineer!!
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
Optedout
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:56 pm
Location: Worcs

Re: Project X

Post by Optedout »

You missed out giving a warm welcome to new members on the forum Alan. :lol:
teazer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Project X

Post by teazer »

I obviously need to upgrade my game. 3d printed ECU boxes with laser cut mounts. I am living in a past century I think.

Did you manage to drag the beast to a dyno again and if so how did it perform? We managed a low 85 on a dynojet recently after swapping the Ignitech ignition back to the original home brewed DYNA set up. on the dyno we got some sort of RF interference that caused the electronics to cut in and out as if someone was playing with the ignition switch at exactly 6,500 revs. Going with full BDK/Zeeltronic setup on the next bike but i need to isolate the RF noise on the street bike. Will try shielding and re-routing cables but I suspect that it may have bee generated by the dyno and not the bike.

At least my builds are relatively simple like myself. :? :roll:
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Funny you should ask that. I was at Dave's yesterday.

Very interesting day and some great learning curve stuff.

So last time was the dead clutch and crap power. So this event was all about proving the EFI throttle body injection actually works and optimizing for the pipes and porting I currently have. That then gets me the build base I need. Basically if I made stock power and it was easily tuneable I would be happy.

So.....The clutch held but in the end it won't be strong enough so will need to sort that later.

First few runs we concentrated on fueling and ignition. My ignition map needed to start much higher at the low revs. i think it ended up at 32 and 1500. Will post the map later but remember we are only working at WOT so the lower end of the map will look weird, basically just look at the 100%TPS line. So we fiddled with that and fuel and got it burning OK but it ran out of power at the top end and the curve shape wasn't great.

When I set my throttle bodies up (Tiger 1200), I did a volume check compared to the 36mm carbs I originally had and as the Tiger bodies were so much larger (42mm), I reduced the butterfly opening accordingly to match the volumes roughly. Long story short.....2 strokes use twice as much air as 4 strokes.... My power was massively dropping off at WOT. Couple of cups of tea and some head scratching and we worked out the bodies had to be pretty much wide open to work. Quick adjustment of the motor speed controller and bingo massive gains!

Now I could add much more fuel across the map (god I love EFI, 2 second tweak and no stinking of petrol :D ) and Ta Da! .......BHp!

Basically I got it to roughly stock BHP....which was the plan. Throttle body EFI reed valve, piston porting can work on a Kettle!
ex.JPG
Next we had a look at the porting. Fundamentally my transfer timing is a bit short. Looking back at the TR porting compared to mine (previous post). I could do with raising the roof by 4-5mm. So there is a job for the strip down.

Next was the exhausts. They are a bit long which can be good for torque but will affect the power. We ran a few calcs on Daves fancy software and I would probably do with widening the belly diameter as well. I also need to look at my inverted stinger design as a few mm error can have an impact.

Anyway... we started to do some more power runs getting improvements playing with the bodies and fueling and timing and got er revving nicely to 7500 (target in the design is 8500) and then I had a head gasket let go!!!

As you will remember I have removable squish heads and after a previous dyno issue where my O ring design also let go because my squish head diameter is slightly undersize and doesn't seat properly on the O rings in all 3 heads due to the tolerance of the head bolt holes, I fitted a standard gasket just to keep getting data ......but that has now gone.

Thankfully I know why so I need to fix the head diameter/O ring tolerance. Dave also recons I need to up the Shure hardness of my Viton O rings to 90 in the head.

Also when I install the new heads the trick is to assemble the head without O rings. Clamp it flat and do a tiny skim with everything clamped to make sure it is flat with no movement. I think I am getting some movement at high revs.

So a few steps forward and one back as usual. With the pipes and porting I have I think some more map tweaking will get me 90+ then I will need some port/exhaust mods.

Learning all the time...... :lol:
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Squish domes all re-machined to allow for the wider landing needed for the Wills rings.

Had a minor problem with one cylinder not sealing and then after some measuring realised one of my barrel grooves was a bit out of spec so I adjusted that.

New heads fitted.....
IMG-0671.jpg
And the home made copper Wills rings...
IMG-0672.jpg
My compression test before the new skilled and Wills head (with a gasket) was 125 PSI. Now its 168 PSi. That should help!!! :D

Back to the dyno.......again!! If I don't blow it up again this will get me max power before final transfer and exhaust mods... :shock:
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

My old Hippo ended up with 150psi per pot after being fitted with decked L barrels, and blew the head gasket twice and vibrated like a barsteward over 4k rpm. Standard head gasket though, not O ringed (rung?) like yours.
Ended up being replaced with 1mm over A barrels and dropped to 120psi/pot and ran fine after that.
With the L barrels the starter motor struggled until I fitted a motobatt and it didn't like the kickstart at all.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

I hear you.... I obviously want reliability and the combo of O rings for the water and Will rings, I am hoping will do the job. They are good enough for nuclear reactors so hopefully good enough for an old 2 banger!

It was getting pretty exciting on the last dyno runs having finally dialed in the Triumph 1200 throttle bodies which allowed me to throw in more fuel and get the revs up.

I've messed with the cooling circuit this time as well to get cooler water onto the head as Kettles run a bit warm compared to modern 2 strokes and heat equals power loss.

I am also looking at some forced induction system for the throttle bodies to basically create higher oxygen supply at higher speeds. I might even chuck in an inlet pressure sensor if I can get the pressure up a few millibars and then use that in the ECU map to add even more fuel. :o
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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