Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

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yeadon_m
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Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by yeadon_m »

Right, I've messed around with the 750A carbs a few times, looking for that elusive (to me) closed throttle buck-free over-run.

Today on the ride I set the idle to less than 1000rpm (wouldn't quite hold an idle) deliberately to make it as small a factor as possible. There's still a bit of bucking though its quite tolerable, so if I cannot improve it, I'm not unhappy.

So, to set up: stock jets throughout and also stock float height. Not sure if these are Suzuki float valves or not. I've found that I have to have the fuel screw out only 1/4 turn and not the 3/4 turn out in the manual, or the off-idle is too rich. At 1/4 turn its perfect. I'm told if you're at one extreme or another on a fuel or air screw its worth testing the next pilot jet size so I have some one-down 42.5 Mikunis is needed, but haven't installed these. Airbox was recently taken out, filter cleaned and oiled, and installed with good foam seals and foam was installed under the airbox covers, so I feel thats not an issue. Timing is stock, Marcel elec ignition.

The carbs have been tapped for pilot air restriction jets and I have sets of 3 sizes: 0.9mm, 0.8mm and 0.5mm.

I was thinking of trying the 0.5mm as these should be at worst, too small but at least will test if PAR jets will make any difference.

Other than 'stop worrying about it', any advice? I'm an inveterate tinkerer rather than worried :-)

One final bit of info which I can't get my head around. If when hot I set the master idle to 1000rpm, then ride it, on returning home its almost always higher OR lower but rarely 1000 any longer. Most times I have to turn it down or up almost a half turn on the master and I cannot work out WTH is happening here. I mention as it might be relevant since failure to get the butterflies closed when coasting is a major cause of bucking.

Cheers,
Mike
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BAZ
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by BAZ »

If you have 120# Butterflies usually the L model 1/4 turn is correct with 110# butterflies 3/4 turn is correct adjusting pilot screws seems to make little difference.
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malky
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by malky »

Mike - I find my A model only hunts and bucks when its hot - it doesn't do it all until it warms right up - I have been playing around with the pilot screws and it seems best at one turn out- if its set on a quarter turn the throttle is so snatchy the bike is difficult to ride smoothly - another factor I have noticed is that it does it less if the chain is not too slack
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swarrans
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by swarrans »

I went to the Ace Cafe today and it was really nice to meet up with several other kettle owners (we vastly outnumbered any other 2 strokes there on "Two Stroke Sunday" with 10 GT750s I think).
What wasn't so nice was riding my 750A bucking broncho back through London traffic!
I reckon I must have the worst surging/bucking problems on the planet and have to fix it to make riding the bike remotely enjoyable (or only every do full on throttle?!). I've ultrasonically cleaning the carbs and followed Baz's video religiously (twice!) so all the jets flow as they should from the video when carb cleaner is sprayed through them. The only bit I didn't do was to separate the throttle plates from the shafts and replace the throttle shaft seals so I am wondering if this is the problem. TBH I don't really want to fit anti surge jets as I believe it should be possible to get it right without them and don't want to introduce other potential drive problems.
Does anyone supply the shaft seals?
I reckon my brand new chain will be worn out in 1,000 miles if this continues!

Simon
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canaletto5
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by canaletto5 »

swarrans wrote:I went to the Ace Cafe today and it was really nice to meet up with several other kettle owners (we vastly outnumbered any other 2 strokes there on "Two Stroke Sunday" with 10 GT750s I think).
What wasn't so nice was riding my 750A bucking broncho back through London traffic!
I reckon I must have the worst surging/bucking problems on the planet and have to fix it to make riding the bike remotely enjoyable (or only every do full on throttle?!). I've ultrasonically cleaning the carbs and followed Baz's video religiously (twice!) so all the jets flow as they should from the video when carb cleaner is sprayed through them. The only bit I didn't do was to separate the throttle plates from the shafts and replace the throttle shaft seals so I am wondering if this is the problem. TBH I don't really want to fit anti surge jets as I believe it should be possible to get it right without them and don't want to introduce other potential drive problems.
Does anyone supply the shaft seals?
I reckon my brand new chain will be worn out in 1,000 miles if this continues!

Simon
I'm talking with no sure knowledge yet (Surprise! :o ) as I haven't had time to fit the anti-surge jets but this was identified by Suzuki back in 77 and this was their solution. Even then, they admitted it would "reduce" the problem! Kev
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BAZ
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by BAZ »

I dont think the shaft seals will make a big difference did you see the surging check list!
emptyoiltank
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by emptyoiltank »

Agreed, I went to a lot of trouble to change the shaft seals on mine because it was the only thing left and I, like Mike, was trying to dial out the last bit of surging. It made little or no difference.
I found one of the best ways of reducing the dreaded surging is to make sure the carbs are perfectly syncd, I use an air flow meter which I find incredibly sensitive; much more so than my Morgan Carbtune the only downside is you have to remove the airbox.
swarrans
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by swarrans »

Thanks chaps, I guess I won't bother going down the shaft seal replacement route then.
Yes, thanks Baz, I have seen your surging probability list and it is possible that #9 on the list "cylinder compression low or uneven" could be the problem but the cheap compression tester I bought doesn't seem to seal so I've been unable to check.
For the moment (having just done my 3rd strip down and check of the carbs, finding nothing wrong) I will probably just live with it - it is manageable if I just go for a ride in open countryside on my own, it's just driving with others and in traffic where it is a bit painful.

Despite all my checks on the carbs, I still think something must be wrong because when cold the centre cylinder downpipe heats up MUCH more slowly than the outer two but the centre carb seems to flow carb cleaner identically to the other two when off the bike, so I assume it is being fuelled properly - and it is getting a spark.

Despite this problem, I do kinda enjoy riding her even though it is all a bit "raw"!

Simon
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mark.read3
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by mark.read3 »

Buy a four stroke ?
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yeadon_m
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Re: Bucking and pilot air restriction jets

Post by yeadon_m »

GT550s don't do this at all - not fair is it? :-)
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