Project X

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madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

So the point of all this is to get more power.

Ducati do a nice compact alternator that was fitted on the 848/998 etc.

It outputs 530 watts which at 12v is 44 amps. That should easily run the fuel pump and other bits I need for the EFI.

The rotor is a permanent magnet (unlike the kettle that is a field coil type where you have to apply a voltage) and the stator is a series of coils.

So the stator (RH bit) had to fit in my GT side casing which with a fancy new adapter plate (which gets welded in), it does !!
alternator1.jpg
The rotor also needed an adapter plate for the crank taper.
alternator2.jpg
There isn't much clearance, so it is all about the line up.

First test of the taper fit and I am a bit spaced off, so the taper needs to go deeper and will sort that tomorrow, then get the welding done.

The rectifier/regulator fits nicely under the lower yoke and is covered by the fairing in the previous post.

I've added an ammeter to the bike now to help with the test runs and to work out where the power is going.

So despite the dyno run being a bit of a disaster, I have tied up a few things and the good news is the head modifications worked and I am not vaporizing O rings any more.

The carbs are a bit better dialed in now so I will do some road runs using the MSDroid logger and get some data before I go back again.

The real challenge with tuning this is that I am not starting from a known point and tweaking one thing. I have new porting, new heads, new ignition, new carbs, new exhausts......It will take a while and that's before I add the fuel side of the fuel injection.

Guess that's why they call it a project!?
Last edited by madforitkev on Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
teazer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Project X

Post by teazer »

Nice looking parts, but does that rotor have a thread in it to screw onto the crank? If that's what I am seeing, I would change that to a nut and lock washer. And that thick boss on the rear of the rotor, can you make that shorter? The rotor has to be as close to the crank as possible to prevent crank whip and eventual failure.

Even though it's a similar mass to a stock alternator, the mas is further out and will have a very different effect on the crank because the effective mass will travel much faster. You may need to machine the right side of the crankcase, but do what you can to keep them close.
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

The thread is only to fit the extraction tool. It uses the standard bolt as a fitting.

Yes the rear boss is large at the moment while I do the final line up adjustments. It will be shorter.

Should have it tweaked by the weekend.

:D
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Got the stator support welded into the casing...
alt6.jpg
and the rotor taper alignment done and support fitted.....(picc shows rotor coils and support attached but normally the rotor is fixed in the casing as in the support pic above....
Alt5.jpg
Not much tolerance around the coils so next step is a gentle run up to see if I need to make any adjustments. I need to do some more road runs first on the old system to play with the jetting a bit more so will get to that later.

In the mean time for the runs I needed to make two improvements...

1. Install better exhaust baffles
2. Make replaceable stingers so I can try different diameters and see how that affects power. I decided not to remove the original 28mm dia stinger and to make a slide in 25mm as a next size test down.
exm6.jpg
I made a stinger with a slight flare so that it wont fall in...
exm4.jpg
and to stop it firing out when running, I made the bandage carrier with a locating screw so when its all assembled it keeps the stinger in...
exm3.jpg
exm2.jpg
all fits nicely in the tube and with the ends on, locks in place :D
exm1.jpg
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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PaulD738
Posts: 3962
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:57 pm
Location: Warrington Cheshire

Re: Project X

Post by PaulD738 »

Your attention to detail is superb 8-)
They're rubbish them Jap bikes lad they won't last five minutes! you want to get yourself a nice Royal Enfield!
A quote from my old dad 8-)

I started out with nothing and I’ve got most of it left!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Line up test today.

Bits all assembled and stator support welded into the cover.
alt7.jpg
Next, mark the inside of the rotor with white board marker then if I have a mis alignment, as it spins it will show up.......
alt8.jpg
Minor tweak to case position and it all lines up nicely and I now have nearly 40 amps to play with :D

BUT.......having wired it up, my 'pre-owned' Ebay regulator/rectifier is duff. It runs up over 20 volts on throttle (should be around 14.5v), so I've bit the bullet and bought a new one now I know the 'concept' works.

Did a couple of road runs with the new stingers last night (25mm ID) , definitely more acceleration, but running lean on WOT (which is good, it wants more!!) so a bit more tweaking on the dyno.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Fancy new MOSFET regulator/rectifier fitted and it all seems ok.

AC volts from the alternator around 40V on tickover and my in line ammeter shows it is supplying amps. :D

Ran it for a bit to make sure the clearances were still all good and it seems good. It does get a bit warm though :o

And of course (Eureka moment) the Ducati alternator is bathed in engine oil...Mine is in a closed air space.....not good.

Cunning plan number 2. Create some air scoops into the casing.....standby for inventive modelling ;)

Switched back to getting the fuel bit of the EFI running and decided to check the fuel rail and adjustable regulator setup.....Then I realised I hadn't extended the rail to match the new throttle body dimensions ....Doooh!
tb4.jpg
Spot the deliberate mistake.....not quite long enough.....think i might have a fuel spillage issue!

I've designed some O ringed spacers that should do the trick, so all good. More machining this week then I guess. :roll:
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
teazer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Project X

Post by teazer »

Premixing air and fuel prior to injection. Very clever. :-)

Some of us are expecting to see a custom machined aluminum fuel rail. Just sayin'.....................

With the alternator, check the temperature and if it exceeds say normal oil temperature in a 4 stroke, add air scoops. If it's less than say 200 degrees F, it's probably not hotter than the oil in the motor that donated it.
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

So the alternator was getting a bit warm.

2 reasons,
First it isn't bathed in oil anymore and my first go had it in an enclosed casing
Second there is so little line up tolerance that it is dead easy to have parts touching and generate friction

So I messed with alignment and may add some dowel pins later. That one is fixed.

As for cooling. I've got the fancy side panel grilles to help the rear radiator so I thought I would copy that design in the alternator cover.

Step 1. Large hole......
alt10.jpg
Step 2. Fancy grill.
alt9.jpg
Tada! 500 watts and cool running!! :D
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
teazer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Project X

Post by teazer »

Kev,

You know I am a big fan of the off the wall/ out of the box thinking, but I can't let that one slip past. That has got to change...

Yes it needs air and cooling but it looks like a fan cooled scooter. How could you? :roll: :? :shock:

Nice work BTW, but I think v2.0 will be nicer. ;)
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