Project X

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madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Ignition side of the ECU is pretty much there now.

I've learnt a lot about Speeduino's in the last month which I will properly post at some point.

Right now I have some ignition coil noise I need to get rid of which is creeping back into the power lines and the trigger feeds to the coils and making the ECU loose sync occasionally.

Plan is to start with resistor plug caps the carbon based HT leads with extra screening and some ferrite coils in the power feeds.

The coil setup is pretty simple. The ECU can only drive low current so the pulse it sends has to be sent through a high power MOSFET switch.
ignmod2.PNG
I am using standard kettle coils at the moment but will probably switch to higher performance ones later.

Once the noise is sorted, I'm into fine tuning timing on the dyno and adjustments like Coil Dwell time (not sure where that needs to be yet, currently set at a pretty standard 3ms when running and 4.5ms cranking).

Good news is the trigger wheel I made and HPI ignition VR sensors works great.
toothlog.PNG
FYI. The tooth log above is bad. Its using my 36-1 (missing tooth) wheel which gives a sine wave out on the VR sensor. In the Speeduino there is a VR conditioner circuit to make the sine wave into a square wave pulse. In the picture above, I had set the edge trigger reference wrong (I had it to rising). My VR conditioner needed a falling edge setting. the wrong setting creates the double high pulse, there should only be one. Learning all the time..... :D
triggetest.jpg
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Taking a step back and forgetting about finding a cure and concentrating on a cause, it turns out to be as simple as non-resistive spark plug caps and copper cored leads. My bike has both and combined with older coils all in a small space, is just too noisy.

A quick start today without trying to log but using a timing light showed no sync losses and that is only replacing caps for ones with resistors (5k ohm). I've got new resistive core leads and ferrites for the power coming this week so will do a full log run then.

In the final build will tidy up the cable lengths and improve the screening again but pending a final log, it all looks good so far! :D

Next step is to look at coil/spark dwell. I know speeduino does some adjustments with revs/voltage and I know where to set it up. I have running set to 3ms right now which seems pretty standard but would like to optomise it but dont know where to start with a 2 stroke setup with higher current 3 ohm coils?

Here's one (ECU) I made earlier.......just have to shoe horn it it with the rest of the c**p.
ecu1.jpg
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Playing with coils this week.

The standard Kettle ones are around a 4 ohm primary. Bottom line is they were designed for the Kettering style ignition system (points etc.) which mechanically control dwell time (time for the spark to take place) and as a high resistance coil they limit the amount of amps that can be supplied and therefore spark energy generated.

With my ECU I have controllable dwell time but the older coil limits stop that working effectively (can't charge enough, fast enough) so I am switching to low resistance (0.5 ohm) primaries.

I have some Dynatek DC3's coming next week which will hopefully do the job. Spec below.
DC3.PNG
With those running and the noise now hopefully sorted out, the ignition side of the ECU is done. :D

One last thing on the noise. I cured most of the issue by adding resistive plug caps (5k ohm) BUT forgot the standard plugs (BR7ES) are also resistive (5K hence the R). That knackered my spark and I couldn't work out why it was running rich again.

Anyways, new HP heads next weekend and new coils so I will post a proper update then.......
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Quick update.

New 0.5 ohm coils and the Bosch 211 trigger all worked out OK with Speeduino

My current settings (spark table, dwell/spark base levels and dwell compensation curve) are below. My initial voltage compensation curve centers around 13v's but when fully running with a stable battery voltage I will tweak that.
first run dwell.PNG
The dwell/spark settings are all from the calculator I posted earlier so will probably need tweaking on the dyno.

So far I am impressed with the Dynatek coils.

I've still got some high rev ignition noise causing the odd sync loss so that is this weekends project. :rolleyes:
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Clearly like all micro's, if there is noise around it will probably generate issues, the result in my case being sync loss and timing drop out. The Speediono uses the fairly basic Arduino micro setup.

After a couple of weeks of trials, the items below, in order of importance, seem to be what helps the most for a small space, bike design.

1. Resistor plugs (ones with a R in the code)
2. Resistor caps, initially I was worried about the additional 5k resistance but so far (pending dyno) they seem fine.
3. Silicone/carbon (not copper wire) ignition leads
4. The USB cable to run Tunerstudio live with must be high quality and not too long, also I found that using a couple of ferrites with at least one coil of USB inside, helped. Noise on the USB line will cause sync loss.
5. Wires between Speeduino and the trigger unit and from the trigger unit to the coils need to be screened cables. I use one for each coil feed with the earths connected at each end, which seemed better than a single ended earth.
6. The +ve to Speeduino benefits from a ferrite with at least 5 coils wound through it
7. The 0v to Speeduino also befits from a ferrite fitting

The latter two (6,7) need some more evaluation, as most of my problem was poor quality resistive plugs and caps and until I had those replaced, all of the above made improvements. I suspect that with quality plugs/caps, some of the other changes may not be required but again, as a tight space build, they may still be useful.

The real eye opener for me was the USB cable, I should have thought it would be an issue but didn't look there initially but it makes sense as its a direct line to the micro.

Also, initially I thought running resistor plugs and caps together generated a spark issue but then found out Speeduino uses cold start correction tables that when the coolant temp or inlet air temp are low, it automatically retards the igniton.

For now I have set all the values to assume running temp and it wont now add correction to the spark table, so that should stop it running rich.

When I add the fuel injectors and the coolant and air temp sensors I will have to use the correction tables again.

Learning all the time!!

Ignore the spaghetti.....work in progress! :D
speedy1.jpg
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Quick update on the squish heads.

Some of you will remember the kettle head when you bore it out to make room for squish heads, ends up all over the place from a tolerance perspective and I would have needed to make 3 individually dimensioned inserts. My solution was to make three different thickness adapter rings to allow for a common head design.
squish3.jpg
Long story short, I made that work with an O ring head design, went to the dyno and was a bit lower on power than I hoped.

More tea and I realized I had screwed up the squish volumes and had 37cc in the head! A standard kettle runs about 30cc.

So new heads made and a quick measure reveals the planned 27cc now. That will give the pipes back the Umph they were missing.
squish4.jpg
The next change was to go to Viton (high temp) O rings in the head. I was using nitrile but was concerned about the longevity.

Another long story short. Fitted vitons, forgot shure hardness was a little lower on the vitons and hadn't compensated for the extra compression on the O ring and higher compression in the head. That lead to a leak, pressurizing the water system and flooding one cylinder! :o

More Tea. Another strip down. Adjusted O rings sizes and all good. Phew!! Rebuilds are getting quicker.
Last edited by madforitkev on Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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PaulD738
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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:57 pm
Location: Warrington Cheshire

Re: Project X

Post by PaulD738 »

You've got more patience than me Kev that's for sure.
I can't wait to see the finished bike up and running, it's going to be a work of art 8-)
They're rubbish them Jap bikes lad they won't last five minutes! you want to get yourself a nice Royal Enfield!
A quote from my old dad 8-)

I started out with nothing and I’ve got most of it left!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

I'm not sure patience is my forte. Maybe downright cussedness alongside the gentle reminders from the wife (how much?!).

So new alternator rotor next week (just found out mine is open circuit :roll: ). Then a road run. Dyno at the end of the month.

In the mean time, I will build the proto fly by wire control and the throttle position sensor interface for the ECU.

The triumph throttle bodies I have will need an adapter designed for my reed valve bodies so a bit of fettling there.

More Tea!
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
madforitkev
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:21 pm
Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Road test all good.

New heads seem to make a considerable difference :D

Now I am back to running lean because I have better burn again, so when I go up on the main jets again during the next dyno run, the power should creep back up.

New alternator rotor is doing the trick but I am a bit worried about the out volts of the regulator which seem to be around 15.5v at the battery which by my reckoning is 1v too high. My rectifier/regulator is one of the new solid state ones for the kettle.

That led me to starting my overall power assessment ready for getting the fuel pump and injectors on. My alternator gives me about 20 amps so that is my start point. To review where the power is going, as I add the other ECU bits I have added this natty little current meter.
amps.jpg
The big draw at the moment is the cooling fans when they cut in (8 amps). When I strip it again I will look at lower current brushless ones and I may even add speed control dependent on my final engine temps/radiator efficiency. I want to try to keep the motor around 65C.

Dyno in 2 weeks.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
burgs
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

Re: Project X

Post by burgs »

Hi
Will be good to see what results on the Dyno give this time around, I guess the fans are for the radiator being in the rear, plus higher compression extra heat?
I will have to go back in your posts and read again.
My Gt750 never gets hot here in Australia, where we ride in some very hot weather.

Burgs
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