Project X

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Alan H
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Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

Mebbe the pump spins too quick and is causing cavitation/aeration of the water? Or can you rubber mount it so it doesn't transmit the noise through the mounting?
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
madforitkev
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Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

It is rubber mounted.

Weird thing is it is silent until the engine starts then it whines. I just cant see what starting the engine is doing.

Without it started it sits there for hours running.

It isnt a voltage change because i'm just testing from the battery at the moment.

Every now and again it will do a short whine without the engine running but 95% of the time it only whines when the engines on??!

Interesting point on the cavitation though. Might try that by lowering the voltage.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
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Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

It is pumping the right way? Not trying to reverse the water flow from 'normal' so it's working harder? Can't think where a harmonic vibration would come from - but try going round the engine using a long screwdriver (tip to engine & handle to ear.)
Don't do it t'other way or you could be screwed - literally. :lol:
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
madforitkev
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Location: Poole

Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

So taking the cavitation theory further because a restriction on input or out put flow (an imbalance) can start cavitation and as cavitation is based on flow.

I experimented with a varying voltage (to change the flow) and then accidentally found the problem.
I ran the voltage from 7 to 12v. Sometimes it made the noise and sometimes it didnt.
Then one time when it was wasnt making the noise, I tapped it near the impeller and it started making it. I then tried that at different voltages and at any voltage if I tap it it starts whining.
This explains why vibrations starts it off.
So I assume I have a bad bearing?

Its a new pump so that's an expensive fix because there are no bearing kits and it came from Australia so I wont get a warranty claim soon.

It is actually a Bosch pump (#0392022002) so I may have to bite the bullet........
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
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Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

Shirley, if you can inspect the bearings and seals, there will be i.d. numbers on them. Lots of suppliers around.
Or is it a barsteward to get to the bearings?
Just wondering - I have lots of hammers if you need technical assistance.....several on ebay in the uk but not cheap.... :shock:
Item 281082319764
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
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garry55
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Location: White Rose County

Re: Project X

Post by garry55 »

Kev - look on ebay at VW water pumps - think Golf / Passat / Scirocco (new) are the same and much cheaper. That's what I've fitted to my track bike project.
Garry.

Inside every standard Kettle is a bloody good engine crying for help............... :D
teazer
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Re: Project X

Post by teazer »

Is some part of the pump or hose too solidly mounted and transmitting vibration to the pump? Try to loosen it up (give it a couple of stiff drinks) and see if that cures it.

Is it this pump https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Auxiliary- ... 12e6f71f98


Or this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-New-Auxil ... Swll5ehV-9
madforitkev
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Re: Project X

Post by madforitkev »

Eureka!!

So i thought about it. Then had a brew and thought again.

Then I took the pump a part. Then it was kinda glaringly obvious.

Despite the pumps as being billed as working in any direction and even with head pressure (I have about 200mm to the filler cap), they don't.

The impellar is kinda in a spiral (sea shell) cavity so it is very easy for a little bit of air to get trapped right at the top and then it cavitates.
IMG_2161.JPG
So pump off, put it in the ideal vertical (impellar down ) position and measure the current because that is the clue (on load current is more). 2.8 amps

Horizontal (as it is in the bike) and with no priming, its 1.2 amps which is what I was seeing on the bike, so despite the head presure and additional high level bleed valve it wasnt priming.

So the only option was to make a bleed valve for the pump impellar. Not much room so I ended up (for now) with a 3mm screw and O ring.
IMG_2162.JPG
I need to make a more robust solution and will probably adapt my enduro bikes front fort air bleeder.

Pump back on. Now I can hear Niagra Falls! Up the track, left it running for 15 mins and the temp never peaked over 60C (the fans cut it at 80C).

All wired as well now so MOT ready. Few minor water/oil leaks but I will save those for the 500 mile check, strip and paint.

Starts first kick off enrichners (chokes). Road test next after MOT. Work is a convenient 10 miles away...
Last edited by madforitkev on Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Honest baby....this is probably the cheapest bike I have ever bought!!
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Alan H
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Re: Project X

Post by Alan H »

Excellent news and an economical fix must be a relief.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
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garry55
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Re: Project X

Post by garry55 »

Thank goodness for Eureka ! :D
Garry.

Inside every standard Kettle is a bloody good engine crying for help............... :D
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