IDLE PROBLEMS

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 12104
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Alan H »

Make sure that the relay coil is continuously rated. If it isn't, then the coil will get very hot. Most automotive relays are for horn etc and are only short term rated.You need a relay suitable for lighting which would be on for longer periods.
The contacts also have different ratings - AC and DC. AC ratings are higher than DC, so you might see 20a AC/5a DC on a contact rating, this is because DC current sparks more when contacts open and 'wears' the contacts faster.
So a relay with continuous rated coil and 10a DC rated contacts should do the trick for the job in hand.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
User avatar
BAZ
Posts: 3599
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:35 pm
Location: Dudley west midlands
Contact:

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by BAZ »

Good point.But they may be more expensive are you OK with that Alan!
User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 12104
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Alan H »

A more expensive relay is cheaper than a new bike after a fire!!
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
User avatar
Kettle-kid

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Kettle-kid »

Spot on Alan , can I just add to your info and say that any cable that is added must be rated to the fuse or current being pulled 1.5mm tri rated cable wil kill it.
As you say spending a couple of quid is better than putting your bike out. I will be doing your mod for my 2014 bike Baz nice mod.
User avatar
BAZ
Posts: 3599
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:35 pm
Location: Dudley west midlands
Contact:

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by BAZ »

Just bringing this post back on some Kettlers were asking about it, anybody tried it!
User avatar
Waterbuffalo
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:01 am
Location: Mostly Barbados, often Florida and ocassionally western Canada; trust me,I get around.
Contact:

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Waterbuffalo »

Wasn't I preaching this low voltage issue for months, I still prefer to simply upsize the orange wires gauge and move the micro connector for the coils and regulator out of its present location than simply sticking a relay in there. The problem is you still have not resolved the low voltage at the regulator with that coil relay OR split the load on the circuits.
While the task may seem daunting to some, the upgrades to the harness are simple but it will require unwrapping to get inside it. Heres basically what happens:

The oem red wire from the battery to the ignition switch and rectifier needs to be upgraded in size to 12 gauge.
The orange/white wires from the kill switch to the coils need to be replaced for 14 gauge.
Where as on a stock harness the orange/white wire to the coils is in the under tank micro socket, it is upsized to 14 gauge and moved to the main under tank block, which is also changed to the four pin type used for the points connector.
An orange wire from the ignition switch to the kill switch which becomes an orange/white wire on its output to the under tank connection, is now a new separate circuit and needs to be replaced for 14 gauge wire.
The existing orange wire to the regulator/rear brake lamp becomes a new separate circuit on the new under tank four pin block.
Both of these separate new orange wire output circuits are paired together, making the coils, regulator and rear brake lamp now on their own separate switched circuit from the ignition switch.
To make this separate switched circuit possible, a GT380 or 550 ign switch is needed as part of the upgrade since it has a pair of switched output circuits the 750 switch does not have.
The whole GT750 harness power distribution is a mess, theres way too many orange taps for the single wire from the ignition switch, why they did not split the circuits and use the 380/550 switch is beyond all logic. Many of the wires are way too small, 18 gauge? really, you have got to be kidding me.
You could go a step further and split the power distribution circuits through a fuse box, making at least four or five circuits for parts of the bike, but having two is way better than having only one, and this way it still looks fairly stock.
Heres how the end result looks in photos on the harness connectors upgrades.


Image
Second block from the bottom, the new three pin ignition socket two orange outputs. One goes to all existing circuits, the other to the kill switch which feeds the coils as well as rear brake switch and regulator. The tap for the regulator and rear brake switch is on the power side of the circuit to the kill switch and not after it.
The instrument lamps (grey) and park circuit (brown) circuit is moved to a separate two pin socket seen next to the headlamp socket, this is so the new sockets can pass through the console ign hole.
The new large three pin socket for the kill switch is seen just below the front brake switch socket.
For some reason this harness had a pair of ground wired cap connectors which were in good shape so I left them. The reason you do not see any orange splice caps is because I reworked their design as parallel splicing on the joints of the new and exisiting orange wires and so they are now all hidden inside the harness and away from moisture.

Image
Main under tank socket, a newly located orange/white wire in 14 gauge powering the ign coils, and the orange wire also in 14 gauge powering the regulator and rear brake switch.
The rear brake lamp is upgraded to an LED so the voltage draw is minmal on that part of the branch circuit.

Image
You need to upsize the power wires to and from the kill switch as thats a weak point as well, remember these feed the coils as well as supply power to the solenoid when the start button is pressed.

Image
A rebuilt kill switch, it takes some patience to do this as the riveted stepped shaft the rocker rotates on cannot be reused once its removed. On this upgrade there are spacers on each side of the rocker so its action is more precise. It works even better than an original one which is usually sloppy.
Two strokes, its just that simple.
User avatar
Dutch
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: St Helens Merseyside

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Dutch »

Alan H wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:04 pm Make sure that the relay coil is continuously rated. If it isn't, then the coil will get very hot. Most automotive relays are for horn etc and are only short term rated.You need a relay suitable for lighting which would be on for longer periods.
The contacts also have different ratings - AC and DC. AC ratings are higher than DC, so you might see 20a AC/5a DC on a contact rating, this is because DC current sparks more when contacts open and 'wears' the contacts faster.
So a relay with continuous rated coil and 10a DC rated contacts should do the trick for the job in hand.
Alan can you please recommend the correct Relay I need to do this job, I intend doing it in preparation for Spring, ampage of relay, correct Guage wires etc

Cheers Jeff
GT750A
User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 12104
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Alan H »

Ebay 174515829414 or similar.
You can always email the seller with the question 'Is the relay coil continuously rated and does it get hot with constant use'.
Also install it in an area that gets some cool airflow (under the tank near the coils) and the wire from the battery to the coil circuit terminal MUST be fused as close to the battery as possible.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
User avatar
Dutch
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: St Helens Merseyside

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Dutch »

Thanks Alan, what ampage fuse do you reckon? I'm hopeless with electrickery :lol:

Cheers Jeff
GT750A
User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 12104
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Wombwell, Republic of South Yorkshire

Re: IDLE PROBLEMS

Post by Alan H »

As the power goes straight from battery to coils and nowhere else, 10 amp should be enough.
Proof that four strokes are over complicated
Post Reply